[admin]

Amendment to Title 39, United States Code, to make cigarettes and certain other tobacco products non mailable, and for other purposes.

[barfly]

As bad as the economy has gotten, they need to get rid of this stupid proposal. They are not stopping kids from getting cigarettes by doing this. This is really the government beating up on the poor Native American again. Its bad enough that they got their lands taken away and they got pushed onto these tiny specs of land we call "reservations". Here we are again (the white man) taking one of the last means of survival away from the Native Americans - the online tobacco business. The online tobacco business WILL die out if this passes. UPS, FedEx and DHL have all stopped delivering tobacco products. All that is left to deliver our tobacco products to us is the US Postal Service. Folks, we need to complain LOUDLY (all 65 million of us in the USA) to our elected representatives to vote this down and we need to do it now. Do any of us think prices from traditional sources are high now? Just wait until we can't get our products in the mail services; the prices of tobacco products will make gas prices (and other inflationary products) look like a steal! Get the word out folks!

[barfly]

I have found interesting groups in my travels to foreign lands...and I love the US of A. I love the land of the free and the brave. I love all the good work of my fellow Americans among all the "Smokers Rights" groups to convince all of our fellow smokers that our rights ARE being taken away from us systematically in a FREE society and it is wrong people! We have to convince our fellow citizens (somehow) that NOW is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country (as fellow smokers). Hey everybody, make sure to voice you opinion to all your elected officials (even if you didn't vote for whomever it is) about how they should consider all of the 65 million smokers' rights to buy tobacco from the internet and have it delivered by "Post" as in US Postal Service. The Federal Government don't want to make tobacco products non-mailable matter. Some 18 greedy state governments DO only because they "Claim" that they should get 'additional' taxes from products in which the TAXES ARE ALREADY PAID IN THE DISTRIBUTION STATE!!! A few "Anti"-smoking groups generate huge falsehoods; LIES about how the products are being delivered and who can get them. This info is presented to the often times, slanted, news media and our smoking and smokers' rights get trampled on.

I don't quite know when I picked up a cigarette but, I know that I DECIDED to do so. I should be able to "decide" to buy my tobacco products online and have them delivered to my home or my workplace or my Grandfather's house in the spring in New Jersey. Please tell all your smoker friends you know about H.R.5912 (this is the one that makes you lose your right to get your cigs delivered to you by the Post Office) and tell them it is important to have this voted down. There will be terrible consequences for ALL of us smokers that order online, not to mention the Native American Indian Tobacco Industry, if the last delivery method is cut off.

Why can't somebody have a decent Jenkins model that satisfies the cravings of the State Departments of Revenue and taxations, etc...where tax dollars are "shared" between the Distribution AND the Destination states??? I wish this would turn in our favor. I don't want to pay super-high prices to smoke my favorite tobacco brands but, that is exactly what will happen (again) if we have to get all of our cigarettes from the neighborhood store. Make the call, email or fax to your elected officials. Do it today! Thanks

[Max]

Barfly hit the nail on the head. It's not as easy as it may seem to buy cigarettes online as a minor, they have many precautions to prevent that. We need to be focusing on more important issues.

[Prabbyn]

You're right on, Max!

[barfly]

These anti-smoking/smoker groups that generate the huge falsehoods would better serve by policing local and national retail chains that sell tobacco products directly to the public. It's total fantasy that any minor gets tobacco products delivered to them from ANY of the Sovereign American Indian Tribes' Online tobacco sites. In the recent past most of the Tribes were as ONE ENTITY in their delivery of tobacco products. Most of the Native American sites were dues paying members of the On Line Tobacco Retailers' Association, an organization that was devoted to policing the online tobacco industry and protecting consumers' rights by holding retailers to "pre-conditions" that were created to keep tobacco out of the hands of minors mostly. These pre-conditions assured that customers would be "authenticated" by post and by fax AND by requiring the shipper to get a signature and photo ID from ALL recipients. The site: [url=http://www.OLTRA.org]Welcome to Oltra.org[/url] , has good links there to the other organizations that were getting on board, before the 18 greedy state governments sued the domestic online retail tobacco industry in the United States in 2005. Most, if not all, of the off-indian reservation online tobacco sites inside the US in business before March 21, 2005 were effectively put out of business when these 18 state governments pushed for a modification of the Jenkins Act. They also sued and/or shut down all online retailers who were not located on Indian lands. Some retailers who were not on Indian lands, had storefronts so, they merely had to stop online sales to remain in business. NOW, what we have is a multitude of Native American and "offshore" online tobacco dealers. The Native American-owned sites claim 'sovereignty' from the taxing laws of the US. The "offshore" sites are mostly in foreign countries and must pay duty's and tarriffs on declared products entering the USA. The offshore sites may only send single shipments of 200 cigarettes (10 packs) at a time to destinations inside the US. The Native American sites can send up to 60 cartons through the US Mail system. The Native American sites generate a HUGE amount of "Revenue" for the US Postal Service. The offshore sites are relying on the US Postal Service's "Global Priority Mail" service (which also provides more HUGE revenues for the USPS) while the Native American sites rely on the USPS for their extremely popular "Priority Mail Service". In this time of economic crisis within America, it will make zero (0) sense for the us government to "Cut-Off" these services to the public. Will President Bush have to give the Post Office a multi-hundred billion dollar bail-out too? Every person who orders anything from the Internet will soon face a challenge such as we Smokers face with HR5912. What will be next on the WWW chopping block. Will your state require new taxes on everything and anything you order online? Regardless of you having already paid taxes on your purchase in the state you purchased from? Will they stop the Postal Service from delivering your products to YOU?...where will it end?

[barfly]

Thanks Mr. McCain! Could you read my post below concerning the Discussion of H.R.5912 Amendment to Title 39, United States Code, to make cigarettes and certain other tobacco products non mailable, and for other purposes. Pretty please?


Sir, as bad as the economy has gotten recently and the resulting losses for us all, I implore you to veto this law if it makes it up to your desk as president and vote against it if it makes it to the senate before your inauguration. I feel that the congress needs to get rid of this anti-american proposal. They are not stopping kids from getting cigarettes and other tobacco products by doing this. The US Postal Service and its global priority mail enterprise will lose as much as 350 billion dollars of Postal Revenue from the passage of this law every year. Sir, I am not a Native American but, I am a Citizen of the United States of America and a veteran of the Vietnam era, as you are. I personally feel this compares to the US Government beating up on the poor Native American Tribes of Indians again. Its bad enough that they got their lands taken away and they got pushed onto these tiny specs of land we call "reservations". Here we are again (the white man) taking one of the last means of survival away from the Native Americans - the online tobacco business. These people only have Ranch Farming (cattle and livestock), Sales of Tobacco Products and now Casino's (since bingo) to support themselves. Please sir, you must review this entire scenario. Anti-tobacco groups tell huge falsehoods about how these products are delivered and who can get them. This is a one and a half trillion dollar a year industry for the Native American Tribes of North America sir (as well as Foreign retailers that ship to the USA). The online tobacco business WILL die out if this passes. UPS, FedEx and DHL have all been pressured by a group consisting of 18 "core" state governments (all of which have overspent their budgets) into stopping delivering of tobacco products. All that is left to deliver tobacco products to Smokers' is the US Postal Service. Mr. McCain, we need to complain LOUDLY (all 65 million of us smokers in the USA) to vote this down and we need to do it now. Do YOU or any of your smoking constituents think prices from traditional sources are high now? Just wait until we can't get our products in the US Mail services; the prices of tobacco products will skyrocket, A major portion of our Native Americans' Industry will be lost and children and minors will certainly be able to get tobacco products from stores and retail chains just as they do and are doing now. In addition, the USPS (U.S. Post Offices) will lose significant revenues from their Priority Mail and Global Priority Mail services. This revenue will have to be made up by "Joe the Plumber" and and all tax-paying Americans. Please consider what I have said. I AM a registered American Voter and a Republican - "The Treasure". I know that HR5912 is of great concern to you. I hope you get elected and I am doing all I can to help you in the final weeks. Good Luck and God Bless...you are my friend on myspace.com/ftpwebs

[bobbyT]

i agree with you barfly and with Max, way more important issues to be focused on, like how our executives are constantly stealing our savings right out from under our very noses! if they just split the taxes, and gave a break to the consumer, and the shipping and destination states split some of the tax dollars, then all parties would be mutually satisfied.

[Chief Smoker]

Well fellas, let's hope this bill will get 'thrown out' when Obama becomes presidents, he's a smoker! I think he still smokes, hell can you imagine all the stress? I'd need a nic fix

[teslahelper]

“The states’ legal crusade against the tobacco industry will one day rank as one of the worst developments in American public law in the twentieth century,” wrote Michael DeBow, a professor of law at Cumberland School of Law, Samford University.

In 1998, Philip Morris and other major tobacco companies settled a lawsuit brought by 46 states and five territories, promising them an astounding $243 billion over 25 years, and then approximately $18 billion a year in perpetuity. The cost of this so-called Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) is entirely passed through to smokers; it is not paid by “tobacco companies.” The agreement has already dramatically increased the retail price of cigarettes.

The MSA was supposed to end litigation against tobacco companies, but lawsuits continue to be filed anyway, with irresponsible juries awarding millions and even billions of dollars to smokers who knew the risks but continued to smoke anyway. Besides thousands of frivolous civil suits pursued by lawyers who long ago forgot the meaning of justice, the U.S. Justice Department is still pursuing a legal case against the tobacco industry initiated by the Clinton administration.

The MSA also “loaded the gun” for trial lawyers to go after other industries, generating approximately $13.75 billion in projected payments to lawyers. It was, wrote DeBow, “the largest transfer of wealth as a result of litigation in the history of the human race, a transfer that is being and will continue to be financed almost entirely by smokers paying higher prices for cigarettes.”