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Old 02-05-2010, 12:56 PM
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Default Pact act

So, our esteemed idiots in Washington are at it again...let's tax the smoking community indiscriminately because we can't balance our checkbooks like we require all other americans to do!! These idiots keep giving themselves more and more benefits, better pay, and then when their states are in shambles, they transfer their poor management of their states coffers over to us...anybody else fed up with this??? No politician will ever get thrown out of office for raising taxes on cigarettes and/or smokers....stand up for your rights and tell them enough is enough! This country was founded on no taxation without representation and the tea party movement is all about this, no matter what your politics are, you can't like it when your country is starting to decide that it can and WILL, indiscriminately, TAX 1/4 of it's population for doing something that is LEGAL. This is CRAZY, and these people all need to be thrown out of office and reminded of their constitutional obligations. Thoughts??
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:57 PM
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For anyone who didn't hear, the PACT Act died in the Senate!
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MARCH 5, 2010

Senecas See Comeback Over Sale of Cigarettes
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

There is a relatively short list of people who like mail-order cigarettes: teenagers, adults evading sales taxes and the Seneca Nation of Indians of western New York, which dominates the national market.

Even the big tobacco companies oppose the practice, in part to stamp out the Senecas’ competition. And with the industry’s strange-bedfellow backing, a bill to block the shipment of cigarettes passed the House of Representatives last spring by a vote of 397 to 11. A Senate committee approved it unanimously last fall.

But then the Senecas, who control a gambling and cigarette empire that brings in more than $1 billion a year, began a campaign of back-room lobbying and public political threats. That now appears to have shut down the legislation and kept the tribe in the cigarette business, a case study in the power of a well-financed special interest to thwart what had seemed to be a national consensus.

“Isn’t that the way things go in the American system?” asked Richard Nephew, co-chairman of the Seneca Nation’s foreign relations committee. “It is something new for us to actively get involved in the American political process,” he said. “But we are trying to learn what works in America, and I guess making political contributions is something that works.”

As recently as December, a ban on mail-order cigarettes called the PACT Act — for Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking — looked all but certain to become law. After the Senate Judiciary Committee approved the House measure, Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, prepared the bill for passage on the floor. No senator has publicly opposed the legislation.

But at the last minute, two or three Democratic senators told party leaders privately that they might block the bill, according to senior Senate Democratic aides. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

The Senecas and their lobbyists said they did not know who their Senate protectors were. Records of the tribe’s campaign contributions offered few clues; the only significant donation was a $15,000 check to the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee.

The Senecas’ apparent victory — at least for now — is a comeback of sorts. Five years ago, the Indian nation lost much of its business when Eliot Spitzer, then attorney general of New York, pressured private carriers like FedEx and UPS to stop delivering cigarettes in the interest of keeping them away from children. That forced the Senecas to rely on the United States Postal Service, which declined to join the ban. The tribe’s sales fell to about 12 million cartons a year from a peak of about 30 million cartons in 2004, according to the New York State Department of Taxation and Finance.

Despite its professed inexperience in Washington, the Seneca Nation is well represented on K Street. Last year, the tribe spent more than $300,000 in reported fees to three lobbying firms: the powerhouse Akin Gump; Holland & Knight, where its lobbyists include Ben Nighthorse Campbell, a former senator and American Indian; and Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal, which represents many Indian nations and led the Senecas’ side of the cigarette fight. Sonnenschein reported that its fees from the Senecas jumped threefold to $110,000 in the fourth quarter as the battle heated up.

The Senecas and their lobbyists won the support of other Indian nations and advocacy groups, including the National Congress of American Indians, by attacking the proposed legislation as an intrusion on Indian sovereignty. The Senecas charged that it would give states powers to police Indian land; its Congressional sponsors dispute that.

“Conferring jurisdiction to the states — that should be very troubling to every Indian tribe,” Mr. Nephew said.

On Capitol Hill, the lobbyists distributed memorandums painting the legislation as a ploy by big tobacco companies to scapegoat American Indians for teenage smoking, beating back low-price competition in the process. (The tribe’s online Seneca Smokeshop specializes in Indian-made and other “economy” brands.)

And in hard-pressed western New York, the Senecas warned that the proposed ban could cost 1,000 jobs in the cigarette business. “An attack on the Seneca Nation is an attack on the economy of western New York,” J. C. Seneca, who runs a tobacco business and is co-chairman of the tribe’s foreign relations committee, told The Buffalo News. With its cigarette sales and casinos, Mr. Seneca said, the Indian nation was “a $1.1 billion economic engine” that would use its tobacco profits for new investments and jobs.

By mid-December, the campaign had won two important converts. Two western New York congressmen, Brian Higgins and Eric Massa, both Democrats, wrote letters to the state’s two senators, Charles E. Schumer and Kirsten E. Gillibrand, also Democrats, urging them to block Senate passage. Mr. Higgins and Mr. Massa had voted for the bill in the House, but they said the Senecas’ arguments about the economic impact had changed their minds.

“I do not believe that western New York can afford any more job losses,” Mr. Higgins wrote to the senators. (Mr. Massa, who announced this week that he was retiring, echoed the sentiment.)

The next month, the Senecas sent a warning in the form of an electronic billboard along an upstate New York highway. “Don’t let the PACT Act destroy western New York’s economy,” the billboard declared. “Tell Senators Schumer and Gillibrand No.”

The nation, which has fought off years of New York State efforts to tax its cigarettes, had already dedicated a $1 million war chest for political retaliation against any New York State official who crossed the tribe. Also in January, the Seneca Nation’s foreign relations committee approved a proposal to spend $250,000 opposing Ms. Gillibrand’s campaign for election this fall; it will be her first statewide race because she was appointed last year to fill the seat left open by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Both New York senators are sponsors of the bill, and both said through spokesmen that they had not worked behind the scenes to slow its passage. Matt Canter, a spokesman for Ms. Gillibrand, said she supported economic development but not at the price of enabling teenage smoking.

Seneca officials and their lobbyists said the tribe tried to prevent under-age sales, in some cases by requiring faxed proof of age. Critics said faxed identification was easy to fake or borrow. The Senecas noted that online wine merchants use private carriers like UPS and FedEx that allow them to require the signature of an adult, but the Seneca cigarette dealers must rely on the United States Postal Service, which does not offer that option.

“It seems very discriminatory, as if they were targeting the Seneca Nation,” Mr. Nephew of the Senecas said of the federal legislation.

Senate Democratic leaders could still revive the measure, perhaps by attaching it to some other bill. Republicans have talked of pushing forward, possibly to make trouble for Ms. Gillibrand. But even if it did pass, Mr. Nephew said, it would ban only cigarette shipments and not cigars. “I guess there are a lot of cigar smokers in Washington and places where powerful people hang out,” Mr. Nephew said. “It appears that they are protecting their own habit.”
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Old 03-12-2010, 09:48 AM
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Sorry to inform you all but, the PACT Act passed the US Senate in the middle of the night last night 3-11-2010. This government is wildly out of control. I know I'm going to be standing out in front of their offices at election time with big signs promoting "Throw the bums out"!

[url=http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-1147]S. 1147: PACT Act (GovTrack.us)[/url]
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:16 PM
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Don't be surprised if Obama signs the PACT Act into law soon. I'm sure the House vote won't take very long.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cooljay788 View Post
Don't be surprised if Obama signs the PACT Act into law soon. I'm sure the House vote won't take very long.
Really, and he'll do it w/o reading it. Just pull up a chair in front of some cameras and sign away 65,000 more jobs worth of tax monies, drastically affecting the lives of 8,000,000 smokers that buy online in America and 30,000,000 smokers around the world that buy online from America. The United States Postal Service (USPS) will lose the 160,000 priority mail and International priority mail packages a month that it handles. Have you seen all the latest Postal ads for Flat Rate Priority Mail boxes. The prices on those have already recently jumped but when they lose their tobacco deliveries, they are going to need a heck of lot more money every year to just barely keep afloat like usual. Guess who will have to pay for that shortfall? At least the ANTI-Smokers will have to pay some of that postal revenue loss out of their taxes, huh? Yes, Obama and his progressive miscreants will ruin America with one cruddy bill after another. As bad as George Bush was, he was a true friend to online tobacco because he vetoed the two previous Pact Acts siting the destruction of jobs (and thereby revenue for the government). I absolutely despise this president - Obama, my two state senators - Bill Nelson and George LeMieux and don't let me forget Gus Bilarakis and C.W.Bill Young. LeMieux, Bilarakis and Young are all "Progressive" Republicans (Democrats in sheep's clothing, Nelson is a Democrat). 4 years ago, I sent a letter to Gus Bilarakis complaining about the revising of the Jenkins Act and other (then) legislation. The formal response from him was that he would make darn sure that cigars would always be available to consumers by post (post office)! He totally dodged the basis of my argument (regulation of online sales of tobacco products, specifically cigarettes)! Totally ignored my protest and answered with that cigar shiz! I really hate these politicians that represent me because they have no idea what they are doing. They are not creating jobs or any revenues. They are not stopping Children for getting tobacco from the Internet! They are not thwarting terrorism! They ARE promoting a black market for these products. This bill creates profits to finance terrorism not the other way around! This bill KILLS American jobs for American citizens (such as myself) not to mention many many Native Americans that have relies on selling tobacco products to the rest of us ever since they first met that first evil white man! They are destroying something that has been a staple of American Society for two centuries! Oh, we will be able to keep smoking at the highest prices (we ain't seen nothing yet). We'll have to go out into the light and get some exercise walking or running down to the nearest store to get our nicotine fixes. Waste gas by firing up the old gas guzzler so we can drive across the state border only to find that all the tobacco prices are too damn high! If you don't have any money and you need a drag so bad, maybe you'll commit a crime to get your cigs. Maybe you might commit robbery, or murder somebody for a cigarette! Maybe you'll just crash your car into a hooker that is smoking a cigarette on the side of the street so you can get her cigarettes. I belong to a large active tea-party group and come next election, there is going to be another change in government. Count on it!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:41 PM
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Pact act passed Congress. Now it's going to Obama.

WASHINGTON, March 17

Voting 387 to 25, the U.S. House of Representatives today gave final congressional approval to the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking (PACT) Act, legislation to curtail the growing sales of tax-evading, low-cost cigarettes and other tobacco products over the Internet and through the mail. Passage of this legislation is a milestone in the fight to keep kids from smoking and prevent tax evasion that costs state and federal taxpayers billions each year.

We applaud Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY), the chief House sponsor, and Sen. Herb Kohl (D-WI), the Senate sponsor, for their leadership and persistence in pursuing this legislation and winning its approval. The Senate unanimously approved the bill on March 11. We look forward to President Obama continuing his strong leadership on tobacco control by signing the PACT Act into law.

Internet sales of tobacco products are a serious and growing problem that keeps prices down and smoking levels up. Such sales make it easier and cheaper for kids to buy cigarettes, facilitate tax evasion and cost federal and state governments billions in revenue. Many vendors that sell cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products over the Internet or through other mail-order sales do not pay applicable tobacco taxes and do not have sufficient safeguards to prevent sales to children, such as effective policies to verify a purchaser's age.

The PACT Act will:

•Require Internet sellers to pay all federal, state, local or Tribal tobacco taxes and affix tax stamps before delivery to any customer;
•Mandate that the age and identification of purchasers be checked at purchase and at delivery;
•Require Internet vendors to comply with state and local laws as if they were located in the same state as their customers;
•Provide federal and state enforcement officials with new tools to block delivery of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products that evade federal or state laws; and
•Ban the delivery of tobacco products through the U.S. mail.
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Old 05-16-2010, 02:13 AM
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Why do they ban shipping through USPS, the post office is billions in the red. They should have considered that for mail order shops it's really difficult to figure out the tax for every state and and a huge pain. Not everyone is ordering to avoid taxes a lot products are hard to get anymore like pipe tobacco, chew, and nasal snuff. Some people developed a taste for foreign cigs, and some stuff like swedish snus isn't sold at local stores.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:42 AM
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Default Does the Pact Act limit only USPA shippments?

Is it possible for the retailer to ship using UPS or FedEx. I just did a fast scan and it appears to say USPS only.
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