[Rev]

There is a RYO filling staion that just opened in Methuen Massachusetts. The machine rolls 200 cigarettes in under 10 minutes. The cost is 29.74 and that includes the tax for a carton. They have a variety of tobacco and filter tubes. Its called freedom tobacco and the phone number is 978-688-0233.

[Arnie]

The Feds are trying to put those places with the machines out of business by dubbing them a "manufacturer" which means aisde from buying a federal license, they will have to collect the federal (and most likely state) tax per stick/carton.

The company that makes those machines got an injunction against the feds imposing their mandate (the feds are merely water boys for Big Tobacco) but that injunction expired on Nov. 29th. Haven't heard a word about where the suit is going.

So it is possible all the stores with the machines will have to pull the plug on them until the suit is heard and that could be many months from now as the courts are clogged.

There is a place local to me that has 5 of those machines and they charge under $25 per box of 200.

I tried a cigarette from those machines and was not impressed. Too tight for my tastes. I'll stick with my table-top machines.

[gatrman56]

There's 1 here in Ocala , Fl.
that just opened up...It's called ciggiesforless
$24.95 for a carton you roll it, takes about 8-10
minutes..also different blends...Only place I know
of down here.....
gatrman56

[Tekes]

Appologies, for a question that may seem funny to most of you, but here in Europe we don't have any of these. RYO out here mostly implies actually rolling the cigarettes by hand

So back to my question...

How do these machines work? Is it coin operated or you pay at the counter? The guys above said about 25 bucks per 200 cigs, so you buy the tobacco+tubes and the machine is 'free'? Can you use your own blends?

Seems like a cool machine, i just ordered a handheld and some tubes to give the make your own a try

[gatrman56]

Tekes

These machines are big, they sit on the floor,
and are appox. 4ft. tall by 3 to 4 ft wide and you
can sit in a chair in front of it..You pour the tobacco
in it at the top and looked like you loaded your tubes
in the front . They said it took 8 mins. or so to roll
a carton.
I guess it was free if you bought their tobacco and
tubes..All different blends of tobacco and tubes.
They also had electric machines on tables all set out
to use I guess if the big ones were busy. They had 2 big ones
about 6 electric ones and a whole bunch of Top T-2's
around. It was a pretty nice set-up here in Ocala Fl.
gatrman56

[Arnie]

Originally Posted by Tekes Appologies, for a question that may seem funny to most of you, but here in Europe we don't have any of these. RYO out here mostly implies actually rolling the cigarettes by hand So back to my question... How do these machines work? Is it coin operated or you pay at the counter? The guys above said about 25 bucks per 200 cigs, so you buy the tobacco+tubes and the machine is 'free'? Can you use your own blends? Seems like a cool machine, i just ordered a handheld and some tubes to give the make your own a try

RYO is a misnomer. Technically it is MYO (machine your own).

See an ad for the machines at:
ryofillingstation.com/video.php - RYO Filling Station

The courts have extended the injunction against the Feds but the factory laid off all its workers and can't continue until the case is resolved. Many RYO folks protested at the courthouse a few weeks ago.

Latest summary:
ttb.gov/tobacco/tobacco-newsletter.html

News report:
A local company has taken the tobacco market by storm with a machine that gives a technological upgrade to the timeless art of cigarette rolling.

But the State Street manufacturer, RYO Machine Rental, has come up against a formidable pair of opponents: federal regulators and Big Tobacco.

RYO, short for “roll-your-own,” has had explosive growth in its two-year existence. The company has about 200 machines at tobacco shops in 30 states, up from 10 machines in 2008. The company recently expanded its workforce to 30 to meet growing demand.

“It just took off,” said owner Phil Accordino. “We recognized a niche and it just exploded.”

But production at RYO’s facility came to a halt last month when federal tobacco regulators ruled it illegal for a retailer to have an RYO machine without a manufacturers’ permit.

The RYO Filling Stations automate the cigarette-rolling process, producing 200 cigarettes in 10 to 20 minutes, eliminating the need for the consumer to insert tobacco into each individual cigarette.

The longtime owner of Cheap Tobacco, a Girard tobacco retailer that specializes in roll-your-own cigarettes, Accordino noted a rising demand for his products as cigarette prices increased.

“Roll-your-own was our niche, so we started looking for better ways to do that,” Accordino said. The machine “is not a particularly innovative technology. We just borrowed from other concepts to make it more convenient and user-friendly.”

Tobacco companies and industry regulators have cried foul, arguing that retailers with an RYO machine are actually manufacturing cigarettes and should be subject to the same permitting rules and taxes that apply to cigarette manufacturers.

Accordino takes issue with the characterization, likening RYO machines to a supermarket coffee-bean grinder that allows customers to grind beans in-store, rather than using personal grinders or buying packaged ground beans. “The slowest manufacturing machine on the market makes 2,500 cigarettes a minute,” he said. “Our machine can make maybe 10.”

Accordino sees the company as a scapegoat for an argument that rolling tobacco companies and retailers are taking advantage of a federal-tax loophole by substituting pipe tobacco for traditional cigarette tobacco. A 2009 federal-tax increase on rolled tobacco products increased the tax on cigarette-cut tobacco from $1.10 per pound to $23.68 per pound. The tax on pipe tobacco went from $1.10 to $1.73. The RYO machine is made for cigarette tobacco but it can use pipe tobacco.

As a result, a carton of 200 cigarettes produced by an RYO machine is about half the cost of a carton of manufactured cigarettes. “The big tobacco companies already saw roll-your-own cigarettes as a threat to their market share,” Accordino said. “So in a way we were too successful.”

On Sept. 30, the federal Alcohol and Tobacco Tax bureau ruled that retailers with RYO machines are commercially manufacturing cigarettes. The ruling, which effectively bans RYO machines, states that the “personal-use exception” that allows consumers to make alcoholic beverages or cigarettes for private consumption does not apply to cigarettes made by the RYO machine — “as it is the machine that manufactures the cigarettes, not the consumer.”

The decision has brought the company to a standstill. The factory is now empty, its 30 workers furloughed while the company determines how best to appeal.

“The big cigarette companies are very, very powerful,” Accordino said. “And this is not a politically correct business — it’s easy to get vilified.”

Accordino projects that the end of production at RYO will result in an overall loss of 304 jobs in Ohio, as the company’s suppliers cut employees taken on to meet RYO’s growth demands.

“I am not going to sit here and say I am saving humanity,” he said. “But those were jobs and money that were staying in Ohio.”

Profile on the mfg.
vindy.com/news/2010/oct/14/industry-feds-stop-business/ News, Industry, feds stop business

As to the question - you enter the store. Purchase your tubes and tobacco at the counter and wait for the machine to be available and then follow the on-screen prompts as to how and when to load the box of tubes and tobacco. It is as simple as using a gas pump with touch-screen technology.
It is a boon to those who do not have the time or wherewithal to use a tabletop machine. Great for folks who have diminished physical capacity.

A close reading of current law clearly exempts the machines and their use from being in a "manufacture" class. But the current law(s) were written prior to the technology being in place. It will be interesting to see how it all ends.

[gatrman56]

Arnie,
Are you saying that eventually these machines will be shut
down,because their saying their manufacturing cigs?
If he does not charge to use the machine, to make cig's
and only collects for tobacco + tubes, How can the govt.
say that they are manufacturing smokes?
I think that I will just start growing my own ,buy some
wraps and say the hell with the govt. B.S.
But are you just talking Ohio or all states being shut down?
because here in Ocala Fl. they are on corners advertising ,buy
smokes for 25 bucks.. everytime I look over where the shop is
as I go by they are busy..
If its all over the country they are talking about shuting these
places down MORE PEOPLE OUT OF WORK !!!!!!
I've got a spot picked out in my backyard all cultivated and ready
have to wait for winter to get over and I will have a harvest this
year.... GROW-GROW-GROW

gatrman56

[Tekes]

Originally Posted by gatrman56 I've got a spot picked out in my backyard all cultivated and ready have to wait for winter to get over and I will have a harvest this year.... GROW-GROW-GROW gatrman56

What do you plan on growing? Virginia?

[Arnie]

Originally Posted by gatrman56 Arnie, Are you saying that eventually these machines will be shut down,because their saying their manufacturing cigs? If he does not charge to use the machine, to make cig's and only collects for tobacco + tubes, How can the govt. say that they are manufacturing smokes? I think that I will just start growing my own ,buy some wraps and say the hell with the govt. B.S. But are you just talking Ohio or all states being shut down? because here in Ocala Fl. they are on corners advertising ,buy smokes for 25 bucks.. everytime I look over where the shop is as I go by they are busy.. If its all over the country they are talking about shuting these places down MORE PEOPLE OUT OF WORK !!!!!! I've got a spot picked out in my backyard all cultivated and ready have to wait for winter to get over and I will have a harvest this year.... GROW-GROW-GROW gatrman56

It's the FEDS who are going after the entrprenuers who are opening shop. So, yes, it is nation-wide. Hope you followed the links.

The shops will continue until the case is settled. The only reason McCollum didn't go after them is that he let the Feds take the lead. Bondi's office is keeping tabs on the case as well.

Should the little guys win this one, I predict that at least an "amusement machine" tax on those MYO machines in Florida will be instituted.

[ssgbull]

I own a filling station south dakota. Sounds like the feds are gonna leave it alone for at least 3-5 years we just ordered another machine we are going for broke