[Snoopdog]

Originally Posted by gatrman56 Tekes These machines are big, they sit on the floor, and are appox. 4ft. tall by 3 to 4 ft wide and you can sit in a chair in front of it..You pour the tobacco in it at the top and looked like you loaded your tubes in the front . They said it took 8 mins. or so to roll a carton. I guess it was free if you bought their tobacco and tubes..All different blends of tobacco and tubes. They also had electric machines on tables all set out to use I guess if the big ones were busy. They had 2 big ones about 6 electric ones and a whole bunch of Top T-2's around. It was a pretty nice set-up here in Ocala Fl. gatrman56

Friend,

I do Business Consulting for a living. A serious and wealthy Client asked me to look into this for him. I have Private Investigation assets that I use in large Merger/Acquisitions. What I determined is that the current models of the folks engaged in manufacture of RYO machines are simply in this for a quick buck. That is the "Simple"....now for some drill down on their Game.

First understand that my focus was for the Florida Market, but almost identical information can be used for ANY State.

You have probably identified the current "Players" in the equipment to use to be RYO Filling Station, Quick Draw, and if you dug a little further you found Freedom Filler, and the little $400 prox box on the West Coast.

First understand that RYO Filling Station and Quick Draw have same ownership and same legal council. They are for practical purposes the same folks. The Flagship product is indeed the $32K machine, that requires payment of Royalties of $3.50 Prox on every carton. Their latest venture is the Quick Draw at $7k (Or whatever the market will bear) to produce one cig at a time, Commercial Grade with similar $3 per Carton Royalty

The third entry into the frey is Freedom Filler which makes cartons at a time and is $12k with minimum 2 per location and $10K for the market (A Zip code prox), and same $3 per carton Royalty. Freedom Filler has had numerous false starts and are "Once Again" stating they can 'Now" deliver.

Before you enter this, understand to be successful you will have to mislead the retail customer, and/or Sell Each Customer on the Truth which is:

By rolling their own with PIPE TOBACCO rather than cigar or cigarette tobacco they can have "Cigarettes" for about half of the price of premium brand cigarettes. The Core to the Game is that rolling own avoids State and Federal Tax Manufacturing Taxes, AND using Pipe Tobacco rather than Cigarette Tobacco is far cheaper tobacco.

There "May" be room for a quick buck in this opportunity, but it will Close and is Closing VERY FAST. All three companies suggest you will be able to get in the $25 to $30 Retail Price per Carton, using this retail price for comparison to Premium Brand (eg Marlboro, Newport) at $60 per carton prox.

95% of the Retail Market are PRICE SHOPPERS.....the business is based upon lowering PRICE.....the other crap is just so much gibberish regarding better tobacco.....

While the Regs will ultimately close the tax loopholes....and that may take a year or two more...the real problem is the Business Plans of the Equipment Manufactureres themselves.....Not to mention questionable ethics regarding the hiding of co ownership of RYO and Quick Draw....it is even more shady.

I live in Florida. The major PRICE player for Cigs down here is Dosal Manufacturing out of Miami. They sell Cheap actual Cigarettes called 305's that are about $45 per Carton...already legal, already packed in 20 Unit Packs and/or Cartons. The RYO's made a dent in their business, so they reacted and WILL END THE GAME OF RYO MANUFACTURERS in Florida.

They are now selling a pack of 20 cigarette sized "cigars" for .99 per pack and $8.99 oer carton. What they are is nothing but same Pipe tobacco used in RYO machines (three flavors Lite, Full, and Menthol), in 100's. Soon to be just plain Kings. They are tearing up market with a carton of cigs for under $10 per Carton. This spells the doom of RYO in Florida.

The other problem that WILL be addressed soon has to do with RYO advertsing a Carton of "Cigarettes" for the price. They are Pipe Tobacco not Cigarette Tobacco...thus a question of "False and Misleading Marketing and Advertising" is just a matter of time. But the real problem is that the idiot who spend the bucks expecting a $25+ Retail price for the RYO is in for a rude awakening. Only a MORON price shopper will roll his own, when he can get same exact product for $10 per carton.....

Game Set Match....Hope this assists you.

[jmann2298]

Originally Posted by Arnie The Feds are trying to put those places with the machines out of business by dubbing them a "manufacturer" which means aisde from buying a federal license, they will have to collect the federal (and most likely state) tax per stick/carton. The company that makes those machines got an injunction against the feds imposing their mandate (the feds are merely water boys for Big Tobacco) but that injunction expired on Nov. 29th. Haven't heard a word about where the suit is going. So it is possible all the stores with the machines will have to pull the plug on them until the suit is heard and that could be many months from now as the courts are clogged. There is a place local to me that has 5 of those machines and they charge under $25 per box of 200. I tried a cigarette from those machines and was not impressed. Too tight for my tastes. I'll stick with my table-top machines.

you should give it another chance,your satisfaction with those smokes can vary because of many things.i myself operate 3 machines in a shop,and i am taught to keep the machinery in good condition,and to provide top-notch customer service.idk how it works at the shop you go to but at mine there are alot of rules we must follow,and i am trained to answer any question you may have about how the machines work in my shop,or what the best deal is,and i could even tell you the tobacco we use,but that is a more private matter.go there again,and ask questions,have the employees help you adjust the tightness of your smokes....all machines are different,and some employees are lazier than others,but i find my machines to pump out good smokes at about 270-310 anywhere over 300 starts to get tight(ps.you are not getting more of your money's worth by pushing the more tobacco button,you are technically getting more tobacco,but can you smoke it?and one more thing that could save you money if you do go to those machines,ask what kind of tobacco is being used,and if the machines are popping loud and unusually,their employees aren't doing it right.) good luck bud.i am either very selfless or bored to have typed all of that lmao.

[jmann2298]

[QUOTE=jmann2298;7724]you should give it another chance,your satisfaction with those smokes can vary because of many things.i myself operate 3 machines in a shop,and i am taught to keep the machinery in good condition,and to provide top-notch customer service.idk how it works at the shop you go to but at mine there are alot of rules we must follow,and i am trained to answer any question you may have about how the machines work in my shop,or what the best deal is,and i could even tell you the tobacco we use,but that is a more private matter.go there again,and ask questions,have the employees help you adjust the tightness of your smokes....all machines are different,and some employees are lazier than others,but i find my machines to pump out good smokes at about 270-310 anywhere over 300 starts to get tight(ps.you are not getting more of your money's worth by pushing the more tobacco button,you are technically getting more tobacco,but can you smoke it?and one more thing that could save you money if you do go to those machines,ask what kind of tobacco is being used,and if the machines are popping loud and unusually,their employees aren't doing it right.) good luck bud.i am either very selfless or bored to have typed all of that lmao.
ps ps; lol chances are that if they use only one type of pipe tobacco,and there is no mixing involved,you are getting ripped off.at mine we mix two together because one brand tastes a little stale alone,so we basically pay more to satisfy customers,it could vary state to state,but you could tell if you are getting good quality by looking at the owner,if he disciplines his workers alot,spots the slightest problem,mess,or theft,and barely allows his workers a break,than you my friend,are at a good shop.just pay attention to what the machinist is doing.

[rollandgobutts]

Unit is only 4 months old. Save yourself some money with this awesome machine! Profitable Tobacco Shop Also For Sale Too.

[rollandgobutts]

Unit is only 4 months old. Save yourself some money with this awesome machine! Profitable Tobacco Shop Also For Sale Too. tobaccoshophickory.com

[webslave]

Interesting. I just moved from Florida up to Texas a couple years now. I would pay the $10.00 a carton for 305's pipe tobacco cigs!!
I've bought them before at the $40 plus a carton. Thought they were a good deal even at that price.
But now I'm rolling my own and happy with it.
I believe the pipe tobacco game will end soon and pay much much more for the tobacco I use.

[Puff]

If you own your RYO Filling Station, there's a new upgrade kit (NOT from RYO) that will eliminate RYO click fees forever. Don't sell them back to RYO for $5000, not when you paid $35,000 for one. Make your money YOUR money.

FillingStationUpgradeKit.com
It's been used on some machines in FL and no more modem, a few new components and NO MORE RYO CLICK FEES!

[ronsen]

But can I walk into one and be provided with PS, D&R etc.? Can I bring in my own tobacco to any of them?
I have only been in two shops. In both, owners and staff were clueless on anything beyond operating the machines.
As long as I am not completely crippled, why line someone else's pockets at $30 a carton for generic product? I can make what I want at home for $10-15? The "no time at home to make them" excuse doesn't hold water.

That all being said, I believe Govt has no business stepping in. If people are happy with the price and product from them, more power to them.